I asked for proof i used an auto and which 1 was used this is thier response
l
V
Response (Pogo Maul)
Hello,
Sorry, but that information is not available to you.
its not available to me even though i won a prize they feel they dont need to show proof i was using an auto to win that prize .i feel that this proves they have no proof that was just a tactic to not give me my money.
Sounds like Pogo has retained the services of the law firm Dewey, Cheatham & Howe :P
yes pogo says i used auto but says they cant make the proof available to me i wrote can they make it available to my attorney since i did when money and they claim i used a cheat i feel i have right to c proof but as u c they have none thats y its not available.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So, they gave you the badge but not the money?
about 1500.00 in cash they owe me and after not getting my money i complained then all of asudden my accounts i won money under were blocked and i was told i use autos so i wont get the money
no i entered the drawings myself
i won several times a few 250. and 50.
Save some for the rest of us will ya! :P
Quote from: Homer on March 04, 2005, 03:22:43 PM
Save some for the rest of us will ya! :P
Even if they DO save some for us - chances are Pogo ain't giving it up anyway!
heh.
If you won a large drawing like that, all of your game history is going to be scrutinized for any activity that appears to be achieved beyond human means.
If you've never used an auto program or any cheats, then I'd say your on track by filing motions with a lawyer.
In reading pogo's terms of service under the heading termination of accounts it sounds like they can cancel anyone at anytime u can sue them but is it really worth it might end up costing just as much as your winnings?
That's the advantage they have. They can cancel service for any time for any reason. Your only recourse (under their TOS) is to cancel service. They don't even mention any sort of obligation to pay...
They don't give large enough prizes away to make it worthwhile for anyone to get a lawyer. I suppose one day enough people could get mad enough to do a class action, but with the new rules I doubt it...
I read on another site that your java sends and receives info in order to play the game and it is all logged under your account for later review should you win money. I don't know if it's true or not, but sounds reasonable to me. >:(
Just outta curiousity, muncher you said you won several what on the same night, if so how many tokens did you turn in for prize drawings. I don't know how it goes i only one a 25.00 gift certificate on the jp spinner. But say if you turn in 2,000,000 tokies or something obscene which i don't know if you did that but wouldn't that say look at me. Have you been a member long? I wouldn't waste my money or time trying to sue them considering, they are ea and i'm sure we couldn't keep up with their corporate lawyers....
One other thing to factor in I think is the fact that every piece of info they keep on each person costs them money... Would it make sense for them to keep track of EVERY time we logged on, and for how long, and how many tokens we earned, etc?
Quote from: goatblls2006 on March 05, 2005, 12:13:50 AM
One other thing to factor in I think is the fact that every piece of info they keep on each person costs them money... Would it make sense for them to keep track of EVERY time we logged on, and for how long, and how many tokens we earned, etc?
Text log files don't take up very much space at all. I'd say yes, if it prevents them from having to pay out a couple thousand dollars here and there, it's worth paying the couple cents in storage space to log everything they can.
Hello,
I won a $5.00 prize and Badge in World Class Solitaire in January, I claimed the prize and last week they removed the $5.00 Badge I had won, when I asked why they responded that I was using and Auto
program (which I was) and had forfeited the prize and badge. Is there anything I can do?
Kenny
So they can really tell when someone uses auto? I won $20 the other week, I'm anxious to see if I get my badge and money taken away.
i won 5 and 10 i cliamed it and got it thta was in 2003 AND IN 2004
They can only tell if you're using an auto if you are doing things that a human normally couldn't do, like play 6 hours straight without taking a 5 minute bathroom break, or never ever missing move, or always taking the same amount of time to play every hand, etc etc. If you use an auto, make sure the auto is playing like a human would play, ie sporadic.
Hi all, just thought id throw my 2 cents in, if you use a auto and win a prize, why are ya surprised that Pogo would audit ur account? I mean, everyone here tells use that when u use an auto, u run the risk of getting caught and banned, and that u have to use common sense when using them, i mean really, use them, and accept the fact that if u win, ur probably not gonna get ur prize. Thats the risk u take when using them, right? I don't use autos, cause I'm cheap for one thing and second, I'm really too afraid to use them and get caught and lose my account, i love this place cause of the people and the super info ive learned, i don't care either way if people use autos, its their choice. But in the end, who cares if ya win the prizes, i just love playing on pogo for the fun of it. ;D
IrishEyesRsmiling O0
but how can pogo say u used an auto if u win tokens playing their games .like high stakes poker or texas hold em.they say u cant transfer tokens but if u and a friend want u can give all ur tokens away and how would pogo know unless u tell them i just played high stakes poker and gave my tokens to my friend .then say u do give them away to ur friend ur friend win jp pogo says u used auto.but ur friend never used auto just because they went from 75,000 tokens to 1,564,139 pogo can accuse him of using auto if so then pogo should put limit on how many tokens u can earn in a day .or close the poker tables.i feel srry for some1 that wins jp in texas hold em and high stakes if they win lots of tokens and hit jp pogo can say they used an auto and never pay them .pogo should put that in the rules regardless if u win legitly or not the final say is up to us whether u get the prize or not.and if they could really tell u were using a cheat .then y when they block u they say write customer service and all they say u used auto device but get around the question that u ask to c proof u used auto their response is its not available to me.its not available i won a prize i feel they should have to show proof of auto device .publisher clearing house was made to change the way they did things now they cant tell people they won they say u could be the winner.plus they made it look as if the more u bought the better chance u have to winpgo does the same they want u to play games but if u r playing more than the average person u r using and auto so when u win they dont pay because all they have to say is its in the rules using autos is against our policy u forfit u winnings .thats y i want proof because it is misleading to tell some they have a chance to win a prize and when u do pogo dont have to pay so wheres my chance to win if pogo says i use autos.when some1 murders they dont say yes i did it they say prove it. i say if pogo said i used an auto they need to show proof.pogo cant prove it thats their way to save money look at the jp's that been at 4999.00 for months.
i have too totally agree with everything barbara says
barbara always tells it like it is.if there was an award for member of the month barbara would win every single month,good on your barbara O0
As everyone knows there are few fans of Pogo's business practices on these boards.. However, I have to agree with Barb...
The telling item is claiming you've won over $1500 in drawings. The entire board would be hard pressed to produce more than a single drawing winner. For you to have won multiple drawings infers that you have entered millions if not tens of millions of tokens to do so. This in itself would draw very close scrutiny from POGO.
The other issue is if we are referring to the law (and I am NOT a lawyer) we are referring to business law and not criminal law. When you started your POGO account, you agreed to Terms Of Service (i.e. TOS). You may not remember doing so, but you did at some time click a checkmark that said you did. Because of this you entered into a contract with POGO where you agreed to abide by their rules. Those rules basically say that you are in a contract where you're only recourse against them is to cancel the contract. They give themself the right to deny service or payment on their side...
Thus the situation you are in.
Like I said, I don't agree with everything POGO does and I think that they will eventually get hit with some sort of class action against them. But you are obviously in violation of TOS and don't have much recourse. Like Barb said, you should feel lucky you didn't also get banned.
if i used cheat then this would have happened and it didnt- (We pogo do audit everyone who wins a prize on Pogo and Club Pogo. When we do find cheaters we immediately forfeit the prize that they've won.) pogo says- (Names on the Recent
Winners page are for
prizes that have already
been claimed by the
actual winner. That
means that someone with
the same first name and
same last initial won,
and has claimed, that
prize. Prizes that are
not claimed do not show
up on the Recent Winners
Page.
which clearly states my name was on recent winners page so i had legitimate claim .
wrong i only enter10,000 tokens ty
yes
i entered only 10,000 each drawings i didnt win everyday or every month or week they added up it supposed to take 6 2 8 weeks so yes in between getting checks i would have won several times adding upto 1500.00
the name i won under was a non club name so there wouldnt be a badge
i still don't understand how 10,000 tokies in drawing got 3 wins for you geez you must be one lucky person
I don't know if this would do any good, BUT, if I were to win a jackpot spin in a game, the first thing I would do is clear the stats from every game I've ever used an auto in. It says when you clear the stats, they are no longer retrievable. I wonder if Pogo uses a backup for stats, just for the purpose of examining someone's account.
Of course, that's assuming I'd ever get a jackpot win, and I think I'd have a better chance of winning the state lottery anyway.
what you say about clearing stats sounds good, kash, but living with a computer guy has taught me one thing--they can find out everything. it takes them virtually no hard drive space and no time to track everything you do on their game site.
i think this whole issue is childish--pogo has the right to withhold winnings from whomever they feel doesn't deserve it for whatever reason. if they even vaguely think that a person could've violated the TOS, they have an obligation to the rest of the players to NOT award the prize--if they don't enforce their own rules, they face the possibility of a whole other set of lawsuits.
O0 O0 O0 O0 O0 I agree totally with you Fyre!!! Rules are set up for a reason!! :D :D :D :D
I would also say that clearing all your stats immediately after winning a prize is suspicious in itself ;)
Barb followed up on my points well enough so that I'm not going to say much more.
My point wasn't directed toward someone who was simply lucky. But there's a point where multiple winning WILL draw attention to you. If that's the case, you can expect for your play to be closely examined. And if you've been using auto's at that point, you can expect to be denied payment at the very least. That's not "scamming" on Pogo's part. It was part of the agreement to start with.
To quote Forrest Gump; That's all I have to say about that. My intention wasn't to instigate an argument, but I do stand by my statements.
To quote barbara "According to the Pogo TOS, all winners are verified."So if this is true then y they verified i was legit and put on recent winners list as pogo claims to get on recent winners list u have to be verified that u won legitimately and u will receive your prize.y haven't i got my prize.all i wanted to show is pogo uses those auto devices as excuse to not pay prizes.
to quote "Names on the Recent Winners page are for prizes that have already been claimed by the actual winner. "
again a quote from pogo"We do checks on jackpot and prize winners for various indicators of someone using cheat programs. If we determine that any prize winner has used a cheat program at any time, we disqualify them and cancel their account."
Quote pogo "Unfortunately, you can't transfer tokens between screennames or combine the tokens from all your accounts into one. We suggest cashing in the tokens on the screennames you don't want so they don't go to waste."
so what Pogo's saying is if i play some1 in high stakes poker and they decide to let me win all their tokens I'm using a cheat because pogo has no way to transfer tokens.
also why after not receiving my prize three weeks after they said i was to receive it and i complained was i accused of using auto devices.
they claim i was verified at time but now i inquire why if i won i never got it im accused of using auto?
It's called not wanting to pay so we have backup excuse to not pay.
I don't know about anyone else, but I could give a crap less if I won money, for more than one reason, the main one being I've used autos up and down inside and out forever, and wouldn't expect to claim a prize anyways. I mean seriously, all I really care about is the badges, in fact I would love NOT to win anything in the spinner except for tokens and screensavers/wallpapers, knowing that I wouldn't be able to claim a cash prize without losing it anyways..
Same here, FlippantOne. I've turned into a badge hoarder, no thanks to Barbara. LOL!
I haven't personally used any autos on my acct. , but a friend of mine that plays for me sometimes I know has. It's been a while back, but know she used auto to finish my last few ranks of tri peaks. Also, I used the wordjong glitch when it was out. This friend also managed to get my last three spider solitaire badges in one day without asking me if it was okay. We exchanged a few words over that one.
Point is, I know better than to try and claim any winnings I would ever be so lucky as to get. If by some miracle I won a double jp at $4900.00 I dunno what I'd do. The temptation would surely be there. I don't see that happening and hope it doesn't. Think of the anxiety lol.
Quote from: Barbara on March 07, 2005, 09:19:30 PM
I would not even attempt to claim it. I would duck and run, lol.
To funny Barb, but I would do the same thing....lol.
Bree
Quote from: muncherPOGO on March 07, 2005, 12:53:25 PM
To quote barbara "According to the Pogo TOS, all winners are verified."So if this is true then y they verified i was legit and put on recent winners list as pogo claims to get on recent winners list u have to be verified that u won legitimately and u will receive your prize.y haven't i got my prize.all i wanted to show is pogo uses those auto devices as excuse to not pay prizes.
to quote "Names on the Recent Winners page are for prizes that have already been claimed by the actual winner. "
The list of recent winners contains everyone who claimed a prize. It does not mean that everyone on that page recieved the prize, just that they won it in a jackpot spin and responded to the confirmation message. Account auditing takes place later down the road. They may not ever get the prize that they won if it is later determined that they violated any of the terms of service.
Just a thought, but if you win something , and they refuse to let you claim the prize , then they should have to show proof as to why they are refusing to give you the prize, otherwise thats a possible case of fraud. That would be like holding a lottery , selling tickets then saying sorry, you won but im keeping the prize because i changed my mind. Whos to say they were going to give up the prize anyways, if they dont show proof of reason. I tried to find legal laws on the issue but im not that great with surfin for legal info. But i do remember there is a law suggesting if you promise it you have to keep that promise or show proof that is legally acepted as to why you did not. And i dont think a pogo contract has presedence over goverment laws. So if they say you were using an auto , then i think they MUST prove that you were using an auto, otherwise they need to pay up , or face having their site shut down if a person were to take it to court. Unless the game site laws are different then regular lotterie draws for lets say a bingo corp ect. but its my understanding to legally hold a licenece to have draws you have to follow certain rules , id be trying to find those rules and seeing if you have a case muncher. Auto or no auto, they still have to have legally acepted reasons for not paying up. hell if winning to often or to quickly is grounds for saying no prize, i better not play cards anymore, I win 90% of my games and i win them quickly, and i dont use anything but my own skills to do it! Wheres the incentive to try and win at all if they will hold it agaisnt you later on? Sounds like alot of smoke to me if they dont want to show you proof. Id try to find the laws they are expected to follow from and research this, ps if you find the site with those laws, can you share it with us . ( their contract is not their law, thats what they decided to post for their site, there will be a licence with its own laws, that they were given when they started the site). And those are the laws they MUST follow!
Lets say, for whatever reason, Pogo does not pay the person the jackpot money. Where does it go? Do they put it back for others to try and win? Does the current jackpot amount stand? The scenario in my head goes something like this. Someone wins the JP of $4999.00. Pogo does their "audit" and determines the person used an auto. Pogo leaves current jackpot at $50.00. (or whatever amount) Is this legal?
~Lisa :-\
I totally agree, I also find some people use their real pogo names on here as well. I am sure if you are a member of this site, or a guest...that some POGO POLICE are too. However I profoundly protest ;) I never use a cheat but visit this site solely to meet and great people and obtain technical help for my pogo problems....I have so much trouble using pogo's FAQ's...So if I win, I am sure my prize will be delivered on a silver platter, however I am also sure I will never win, so I am content with my pretty little badges and my tokens, perhaps one day they can be exchanged for airmiles and I can fly and visit the POGO Headquaters, which I think is in some 12 year olds basement unbeknownst to his parents..LOL I really hope that was a word cause I would like to use it in word whomp next time...LOL
Blhue1
Quote from: momofone on March 08, 2005, 06:17:28 AM
Lets say, for whatever reason, Pogo does not pay the person the jackpot money. Where does it go? Do they put it back for others to try and win? Does the current jackpot amount stand? The scenario in my head goes something like this. Someone wins the JP of $4999.00. Pogo does their "audit" and determines the person used an auto. Pogo leaves current jackpot at $50.00. (or whatever amount) Is this legal?
~Lisa :-\
I believe it is as you guessed. The jackpot is reset to $50 wether or not the winner ever gets their money or not.
update i found out y my account on pogo was blocked and I'm not getting the money because pogo says if u and a friend play high stakes poker and u win all the time u r laundering tokens but i never seen in Pogo's rules that say u have to lose or that its laundering if u earn u friends tokens honestly.
and they (pogo) says its cheating to do so but in rules it say u cant use auto device so how is playing and losing to a friend using auto .
Well how does pogo know who is your friend unless they are on your friend's list. Maybe I should remove my friend's I play poker with anyway, cause I play bad, LOL. I've heard of everything now, token laundering. ;D
Quote from: muncherPOGO on March 08, 2005, 01:57:30 PM
update i found out y my account on pogo was blocked and I'm not getting the money because pogo says if u and a friend play high stakes poker and u win all the time u r laundering tokens but i never seen in Pogo's rules that say u have to lose or that its laundering if u earn u friends tokens honestly.
and they (pogo) says its cheating to do so but in rules it say u cant use auto device so how is playing and losing to a friend using auto .
Hmm, thanks for this info. I didn't realize it was against the rules specifically either.
I would take a guess they figured it was laundring if you won every game and your friend lost every game, i would also wonder if they could monitor chat convos and you made some mention of that in the chat room, even if it was a private convo or not, they could still see it. If a person is accused of bad conduct and reported i think thats how they go and find out of that person should be banned or not. So did you and your friend chat about giving the tokens to you?
wow, my friend and I bet tokens on football games, the outcome of the apprentice, etc. and I pay by going into hold em and losing them to her. I sure didn't know you weren't allowed to "share" tokens
Well if this is the case then Pogo needs to completely revamp their TOS. This particular rule appears in no form there, (and for it to be legally binding, it should be). This would be much like winning the lottery and them deciding that the winner was void because the winner elected to give a friend $30,000 out of his pocket the week before. Also, every single pogo player that utilizes friends to complete challenges (such as checkers, spades, etc...) where they purposefully lose would also be in violation of this so-called "rule."
Reason for edit: I was apparently delusional from lack of coffee and made no sense even to me....
it only takes 1 entry to win a drawing O0
Quote from: BeetahCheetah on March 09, 2005, 07:24:07 AM
it only takes 1 entry to win a drawing O0
it only takes 1 entry to win a drawing, and 100 lawyers to collect your winnings. :D
If i played pogo to win i'd have a serious complex by now...good thing i dont plan on winning lol
Hugs
beth
I think the fact of the matter is, until someone has the nads to challenge pogo in a court of law, (to set a precedence of course), people haven't a chance. Look at it from there point of view. I doubt they purposely hold winnings, without THEIR just cause. I'm sure they have some info to back it up, or they wouldn't do it. Its to bad its a flawed system that has room for errors, but its something that we have to live with. And i might be wrong on this, but if we use autos and get caught, WE can be charged with fraud, if Pogo wanted to take it that far, although i think alot easier to boot people off for what its worth. And peeps lets get realistic, it would probably have to go to a civil court, with you by your lonesome, against I'm sure there 100 corpate lawyers they have on retainer. And even if a person wins a civil suit. All that determines is that a party is entitled to something. It doesn't make the other party pay. That has to done threw yet another trip to thee old courts. Seems like quite a long drawn out ordeal. Just my 2 cents worth and definitely crossing my fingers that i never win anything, lmao.
Pogo exists to make money/profit for whoever the owners are.
The more excuses or reasons they have to avoid paying prizes, sure they will do so.
It is a "one sided" operation and all we have is our trust in them Pogo.
I really am waiting for the day few/some people really win without autos and they insist saying autos were used, then we will see how honest Pogo is.
And lets face it, the number of money prizes they give out, compared to the amount of money they get in is just to fool all of us :D.
I play for the fun badge challenges, so I am not expecting to be lucky to win one of the so very often JP prizes..
And gthe $5 $10 gift certificates are there only to make people think they have a chance.
And again, Pogo can say whatever they want...
I agree with what was said above me. They are there to make money and like any company they have some sort of fraud department. Those wanting to sue pogo for fraud once they prove their cases, they could then make a case against you for fraud, much like a casino does.
This is the way I play.
I assume they track every thing on me.
I assume if I did win they would look at every little thing to see if I cheated even once three years ago.
I assume I will never win.
Playing like this, and trying to get as many badges as I can, seems to be the best way for me.
Quote from: kingkong316 on March 20, 2005, 03:25:04 PM
Playing like this, and trying to get as many badges as I can, seems to be the best way for me.
But i am just curious if you did win the jp would you try to claim it knowing the risk of them banning your account. I am not so sure i would that is why i ask.Because I like the badges 8)
I know I would. I rarely use autos now, mainly just when I'm playing and get up to do other things, I let it run. But I have used them in the past, (never in excess). You can guarantee I would risk the account being banned for a grand or so. :P I think I'm in the clear though.
:-\..... :-\....... :-\...... :-\
I`am not trying to be stupid but I never knew autos were considered cheating,I thought they helped play the game for awhile,I didn`t know you could get badges wiith them..... ;D.....Thank God,I know i`am going too win that "JACK POT".... O0...... O0...... O0....... O0..... I downloaded one or two but couldn`t get it to work..... it was popit and the sims...
ladijade
Quote from: missookie on March 22, 2005, 03:04:09 PM
I read on the Badgehelp.com website that Pogo can't tell if you're using a auto program. The only way the can tell is if you slip up when you're using one. Am I right? Pogo can suspect that you're using a auto program, but you have to provide the burden of proof should you litigate over your money. That really sucks for you and I'm sorry you didn't get your prize. $1500 is quite a chunk of change.
And, it would be easy to prove in some cases (for example: 100% on WWW, with no mistakes, no wrong clicks, etc), but in others, it's just their word against yours.