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Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 22, 2005, 10:29:58 PMQuote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
wow,temper temper
You take money from my pocket to pay for your healthcare while prohibiting me from using what's left to pay for mine, and you chastise me for anger? Only a complete idiot would face that obscenity without anger.
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
I am NOT whining..I'm so sick of people knocking out heath care and WHINING
I heard you whining. I distinctly heard you. By a show of hands, when you heard this person complaining about actually having to pay for a visit to the emergency room for something easily taken care of in a doctor's office, how many of you readers out there heard a whine?
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
I don't know what kind of mess you have had with our"System" but you are NOT among the majority.
I would find it obscene to take money from one sole individual for the healthcare of others while forcibly preventing that person from paying for his own healthcare. Whether it happens to a majority is irrelevant. Had you any education whatsoever on the once great culture that founded the society you live in and the enlightenment thinkers who laid the groundwork for a free and liberal society, you would have a clue that a tyranny of the majority is still a tyranny.
As it happens, for 11 years, I was a member of a 14% minority or about 3.6 million Canadians shut out of the Canadian healthcare system. And from the same article, for a mere 6 years, I was a member of the more select group of 1.2 million Canadians who are actually confronted by the reality of that situation.
Those numbers are "millions" not "tens".
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
I expect NO ONE to pay for my health care,either side of the border
Bull! My taxes pay for your healthcare, and you expect my taxes to pay for them. You made that amply clear when you whined about the $1500 hospital bill you actually had to pay for yourself instead of sloughing off on your neighbours. And you expect this while I am prevented from paying for my own healthcare. (Unless I first flee to the free world.)
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
You can READ all the articles you want,like pregnancy,you will never have it,nor,can you prescribe for it
Are you suggesting I have no bladder? Or are you suggesting I am completely immune to infection? It's true I will never be pregnant, but I don't see the relevance to your whining about having to pay for a needless emergency visit over a preventable condition that's easily treated in a doctor's office.
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
I have multiple sclerosis and believe me...Canada does very well by me...
Am I to understand your position is you do not care how many people get screwed or how obscenely they get screwed as long as you are well done by? There is only one thing wrong with Canada: It's full of Canadians.
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
".don't it always seem to go,you don't know what you got til its gone"
Quite frankly, you reveal your own ignorance. It is clear you absolutely refuse to even look at the situation until you lose your family doctor so your "don't know what you got til its gone" is a self-fulfilling prophesy. I sure hope your doctor doesn't decide to close up the family practice for an easier and more lucrative Bernstein Diet Clinic.
(If you've been thinking of moving to Geraldton any time in the near future, you might want to hold those plans off for a little while.)
Quote from: Serendipity on February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AM
You can spout all the figures and gobbldygook you want..We have free heath care...
There you go showing your ignorance again. How do you figure taxing me to pay for your healthcare makes it 'free' ? Somebody still pays. Its clear you don't care who you steal it from or who you deprive as long as YOU get what YOU want.
Posted by Snarechick
- February 22, 2005, 08:17:18 PMWell said.
"Do NOT get sick here" can be said in some cases, but an informed and well researched patient can not only determine if their doctor is on top of their personal care, but can also realize that second and third opinions can be good ideas. I've been a cancer patient here in the states for the past two and a half years, and have had excellent care. My mother became paralyzed from the waist down (paraplygia), has just recently suffered renal failure and put on dialysis, and is currently getting ready to have new lens' put in to replace her natural lens' during a double eye surgery. My point? The freedom to choose allows for us to get the healthcare from phyicians and specialists that meets our demands. Nothing can substitute for a well informed patient who does his or her research on their conditions and can therefore make informed decisions regarding their health. If people have had bad experiences it's because they've stayed with a physician and remained unhappy, are one of the unlucky who actually HAD a bad experience, or are the type who don't realize that physicians are human and reasonable mistakes are made.
Cranberry juice is not a cure, this is true...but it can help with Bladder/Urinary Tract infections. My mother is extremely prone to getting UTI's as she has had a catheder since her accident in Jan. 02. Full course anti-biotic treatment and the suggestion of cranberry juice are fairly common among Urology patients. Not railing on you, just saying in general.
Being among the majority or not, regardless of what side of the border, is very unfortunate and very frustrating. Just because it's not happened to you and you have not heard of many cases does it make it any less unjust. For someone to be denied medical treatment, unless it's deemed serious enough to be admitted to a hospital, is unexceptable. BHB has been denied far longer than my ordeal here in the states (was kicked off of Blue Cross for 2 years with no explanation as a minor (17 yrs of age) while suspected to already have cancer which would actually put me at 5 years worth of cancer...I was so ill at the time of reinstatement that I went straight to the ER and they did surgery and diagnosed me as Stage IV Thyroid cancer within a week), and luckily he hasn't had any serious illness in that time. Health care systems the world over have holes and flaws in their programs, it's not until you get caught in one that you understand how obscene it is for those involved and the legal fights you have to get yourself involved in to get the treatment you want and need.
On a side note- don't get worked up over discussions on forums. It's extremely hard to tell the initial tone and inflection of one's conversation when it's written rather than spoken, especially on the Internet. Sometimes one can come across completely different than they intended (I'm sure we've all been there, haha! ::) :P )
Back to my dark corner...
"Do NOT get sick here" can be said in some cases, but an informed and well researched patient can not only determine if their doctor is on top of their personal care, but can also realize that second and third opinions can be good ideas. I've been a cancer patient here in the states for the past two and a half years, and have had excellent care. My mother became paralyzed from the waist down (paraplygia), has just recently suffered renal failure and put on dialysis, and is currently getting ready to have new lens' put in to replace her natural lens' during a double eye surgery. My point? The freedom to choose allows for us to get the healthcare from phyicians and specialists that meets our demands. Nothing can substitute for a well informed patient who does his or her research on their conditions and can therefore make informed decisions regarding their health. If people have had bad experiences it's because they've stayed with a physician and remained unhappy, are one of the unlucky who actually HAD a bad experience, or are the type who don't realize that physicians are human and reasonable mistakes are made.
Cranberry juice is not a cure, this is true...but it can help with Bladder/Urinary Tract infections. My mother is extremely prone to getting UTI's as she has had a catheder since her accident in Jan. 02. Full course anti-biotic treatment and the suggestion of cranberry juice are fairly common among Urology patients. Not railing on you, just saying in general.
Being among the majority or not, regardless of what side of the border, is very unfortunate and very frustrating. Just because it's not happened to you and you have not heard of many cases does it make it any less unjust. For someone to be denied medical treatment, unless it's deemed serious enough to be admitted to a hospital, is unexceptable. BHB has been denied far longer than my ordeal here in the states (was kicked off of Blue Cross for 2 years with no explanation as a minor (17 yrs of age) while suspected to already have cancer which would actually put me at 5 years worth of cancer...I was so ill at the time of reinstatement that I went straight to the ER and they did surgery and diagnosed me as Stage IV Thyroid cancer within a week), and luckily he hasn't had any serious illness in that time. Health care systems the world over have holes and flaws in their programs, it's not until you get caught in one that you understand how obscene it is for those involved and the legal fights you have to get yourself involved in to get the treatment you want and need.
On a side note- don't get worked up over discussions on forums. It's extremely hard to tell the initial tone and inflection of one's conversation when it's written rather than spoken, especially on the Internet. Sometimes one can come across completely different than they intended (I'm sure we've all been there, haha! ::) :P )
Back to my dark corner...
Posted by Serendipity
- February 22, 2005, 12:23:00 AMwow,temper temper
I am NOT whining..I'm so sick of people knocking out heath care and WHINING
I don't know what kind of mess you have had with our"System" but you are NOT among the majority.
I expect NO ONE to pay for my health care,either side of the border,and stuff your cranberry juice Doc, its not a cure,and does little to prevent an onslaught.You can READ all the articles you want,like pregnancy,you will never have it,nor,can you prescribe for it
I have multiple sclerosis and believe me...Canada does very well by me...".don't it always seem to go,you don't know what you got til its gone"
You can spout all the figures and gobbldygook you want..We have free heath care...maybe you upper canadians are doing something wrong,for once!!!
Bet its you that started the"we live in Igloos,and Canada is owned by Greenland rumour"!!
I am NOT whining..I'm so sick of people knocking out heath care and WHINING
I don't know what kind of mess you have had with our"System" but you are NOT among the majority.
I expect NO ONE to pay for my health care,either side of the border,and stuff your cranberry juice Doc, its not a cure,and does little to prevent an onslaught.You can READ all the articles you want,like pregnancy,you will never have it,nor,can you prescribe for it
I have multiple sclerosis and believe me...Canada does very well by me...".don't it always seem to go,you don't know what you got til its gone"
You can spout all the figures and gobbldygook you want..We have free heath care...maybe you upper canadians are doing something wrong,for once!!!
Bet its you that started the"we live in Igloos,and Canada is owned by Greenland rumour"!!
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 20, 2005, 07:23:06 AMKazandchip,
The healthcare system in Ontario Canada was totally screwed up by two laws. One law forbids doctors to bill anything in excess of what OHIP pays. The second law claws back doctors salaries if they make too much money. I believe similar laws apply in other provinces.
As a result, doctors leave Canada for the free world. This leaves much of Canada with a critical doctor shortage. While you do not have to go to a specific doctor, the problem is finding any doctor at all willing to take on new patients. Most general practitioners here are overworked and undercompensated--all in the name of some perverse and obscene sense of 'fairness'.
For years, I was in a situation where I was very affluent and could pay the entire cost of my medical care. However, the province of Ontario prohibits me from doing so.
Without a family doctor, one cannot get referrals to specialists. The only way to get any advanced medical treatment without a family doctor is to show up at emergency. If your condition is not serious enough for immediate admittance, you basically get sent home to come back when it is more serious.
I find that barbaric and obscene.
The healthcare system in Ontario Canada was totally screwed up by two laws. One law forbids doctors to bill anything in excess of what OHIP pays. The second law claws back doctors salaries if they make too much money. I believe similar laws apply in other provinces.
As a result, doctors leave Canada for the free world. This leaves much of Canada with a critical doctor shortage. While you do not have to go to a specific doctor, the problem is finding any doctor at all willing to take on new patients. Most general practitioners here are overworked and undercompensated--all in the name of some perverse and obscene sense of 'fairness'.
For years, I was in a situation where I was very affluent and could pay the entire cost of my medical care. However, the province of Ontario prohibits me from doing so.
Without a family doctor, one cannot get referrals to specialists. The only way to get any advanced medical treatment without a family doctor is to show up at emergency. If your condition is not serious enough for immediate admittance, you basically get sent home to come back when it is more serious.
I find that barbaric and obscene.
Posted by kazandchip
- February 19, 2005, 02:40:08 PMBob Is the Canadian system like the UK NHS where you have to find a Dr/Dentist and register with them and then use only that Dr?
Our free medical system lets you go to any Dr you choose and many bulk bill (ie you don't pay the gap between what the govt pay the dr and what the Dr charges.) We do have private health insurance that cover private hospital treatment and it means you can usually have ops straight away and all ancilliary health providers like physio, optometry are subsidised (I think we pay 25% and the health fund pay the rest) The Govt do provide these service gratis but waiting lists are long.Seems unfair that in Canada you have to find a Dr willing to take you on their list
Our free medical system lets you go to any Dr you choose and many bulk bill (ie you don't pay the gap between what the govt pay the dr and what the Dr charges.) We do have private health insurance that cover private hospital treatment and it means you can usually have ops straight away and all ancilliary health providers like physio, optometry are subsidised (I think we pay 25% and the health fund pay the rest) The Govt do provide these service gratis but waiting lists are long.Seems unfair that in Canada you have to find a Dr willing to take you on their list
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 19, 2005, 01:50:29 PMYes, I have been denied treatment--I was denied access to the Canadian medical system for over half a decade. And I am told to expect the same thing to happen again for another 8 years. Did you not read what I wrote earlier?
I am quite familiar with both sides of the border. Anyone truly informed about the matter would prefer the US system. Any system that prohibits a person from spending their own money on their own health is obscene. Healthcare in Canada is an obscenity.
From what I understand having read your post, you are whining because having failed to properly care for yourself and having grown accustomed to burdening the emergency ward at your local hospital with an easily prevented condition, you did not like having to pay the cost of the irresponsibility you regularly foist onto your neighbours.
If you lived in the US, you would more likely have taken the full antibiotic course to cure the condition and then started drinking a little cranberry juice to keep it from recurring. Instead, you expect your neighbours to cough up the $1500 periodically to make the symptoms go away for awhile.
I am quite familiar with both sides of the border. Anyone truly informed about the matter would prefer the US system. Any system that prohibits a person from spending their own money on their own health is obscene. Healthcare in Canada is an obscenity.
From what I understand having read your post, you are whining because having failed to properly care for yourself and having grown accustomed to burdening the emergency ward at your local hospital with an easily prevented condition, you did not like having to pay the cost of the irresponsibility you regularly foist onto your neighbours.
If you lived in the US, you would more likely have taken the full antibiotic course to cure the condition and then started drinking a little cranberry juice to keep it from recurring. Instead, you expect your neighbours to cough up the $1500 periodically to make the symptoms go away for awhile.
Posted by Serendipity
- February 19, 2005, 01:41:05 PMWell Captain,that makes 2 of us,lol..I have never been prevented from having any medical care i needed in Canada, and you have??? And,i have never taken a purse/wallet/or money to the Drs,hospitals,etc,except for ID
My point is, the grass isn't always greener on the other side{of the border}lol.. 8) Both countries have their plus/minus'... Up to us which PLUS outweighs a few minus'..I prefer to be sick in Canada ;) Go Bless Both Countries
My point is, the grass isn't always greener on the other side{of the border}lol.. 8) Both countries have their plus/minus'... Up to us which PLUS outweighs a few minus'..I prefer to be sick in Canada ;) Go Bless Both Countries
Posted by LustyPirateWench
- February 19, 2005, 12:57:34 PMQuote from: maxraven on February 18, 2005, 01:58:10 PM
With all its problems, the USA is still the best country in the world in my opinion. Complaining about hospital waiting or free lunch money like SSI means little to people that live in countries where there are NO doctors or hospitals and, if you cannot earn your way, those governments just let you die. Try to be thankful for what you have and not resentful for what you have not.
Free press, the ability to be a liberal whack without anyone knocking down your door, the ability to say whatever you want, the ability to practice whatever religion you want, the ability to be with whom ever you wish to be with, and most of all NO BURKAS!
I love my country - and if they would let me - I'd go back into the USAF in a heartbeat. America stands for something, at times I'm not quite sure what it is... but I'd support out country and our government in a heartbeat. For after everything is said and done, I've lived a GOOD life so far, and been able to do whatever I've wanted to (that was legal) without having to worry about people getting in my face about it. My kids were raised FREE, I am a second generation Italian from NY and I do take offense that someone bombed my home town. I still remember and am pissed (which apparently most of my fellow countrymen have forgotten) but the ultimate beauty of it is - THEY/WE ARE FREE TO DO SO.
Oh sorry - I was rambling. been sick as a dog all week - still getting worse it seems.
LPW...
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 19, 2005, 12:49:43 PMSerendipity,
How is it any better to be prevented to pay for medical treatment I need and desire? I don't understand what point you are trying to make.
I would much rather have $1500 treatment than no treatment at all.
How is it any better to be prevented to pay for medical treatment I need and desire? I don't understand what point you are trying to make.
I would much rather have $1500 treatment than no treatment at all.
Posted by Serendipity
- February 19, 2005, 06:52:18 AMI Am Canadian!! :D
An East Coaster.Our ladies have been know to be able to carry a 24{suitcase of beer} under each arm,with their hands in their pockets,singing We Are An Island,whilst doing a jig heading to the local Beach
I am now in the US..Pleaseeeeeeee do NOT get sick here!!! Say what you want about Canadian taxes, but,hellsbells,you will be taken care of at our doctors,dentists,emerg rooms
Twice now i've had to use the medical services.. At home,i would go in to emerg,get treated,medicated and be on my way.
Here,same thing,EXCEPT,bill fr Dr {Didn't see 1},Bill fr Dr assistant,Bill for IV{frigging sugar/water},ANOTHER IV bill{had 2} the list goes on,prescriptions,etc.I'm still waiting for my 'Your Alive Bill "
Boiled down to a recurring Bladder infection that cost me $ 1500..{no i didn't take out insurance as i was only here 4 a week,WHO KNEW!!..I've been treated at home for this for a lot of years..I didn't know you had to pay when you got sick,lol.. So,Pay your Taxes,and be happy..
BTW.... do not, DO NOT lose a filling here{root canal,then filling,if root canal doesn't work, start again,if it STILL doesn't work{after $1600} YANK THE SUCKER!!!{shoulda yanked it in the 1st place >:(
I AM PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN
{ps,I'm not stupid enough to fall 4 that ol "SPELL CHECK" thingy a 2nd time} :(
An East Coaster.Our ladies have been know to be able to carry a 24{suitcase of beer} under each arm,with their hands in their pockets,singing We Are An Island,whilst doing a jig heading to the local Beach
I am now in the US..Pleaseeeeeeee do NOT get sick here!!! Say what you want about Canadian taxes, but,hellsbells,you will be taken care of at our doctors,dentists,emerg rooms
Twice now i've had to use the medical services.. At home,i would go in to emerg,get treated,medicated and be on my way.
Here,same thing,EXCEPT,bill fr Dr {Didn't see 1},Bill fr Dr assistant,Bill for IV{frigging sugar/water},ANOTHER IV bill{had 2} the list goes on,prescriptions,etc.I'm still waiting for my 'Your Alive Bill "
Boiled down to a recurring Bladder infection that cost me $ 1500..{no i didn't take out insurance as i was only here 4 a week,WHO KNEW!!..I've been treated at home for this for a lot of years..I didn't know you had to pay when you got sick,lol.. So,Pay your Taxes,and be happy..
BTW.... do not, DO NOT lose a filling here{root canal,then filling,if root canal doesn't work, start again,if it STILL doesn't work{after $1600} YANK THE SUCKER!!!{shoulda yanked it in the 1st place >:(
I AM PROUD TO BE A CANADIAN
{ps,I'm not stupid enough to fall 4 that ol "SPELL CHECK" thingy a 2nd time} :(
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 18, 2005, 02:10:58 PMHear! Hear! Max!
I am amazed everytime I hear someone say they want to come up here. I would do just about anything to escape to the US.
At least in the US, I can use my hard-won money on my own health. Up here, the government prohibits such things and people are stupid enough to call it a benefit.
I am amazed everytime I hear someone say they want to come up here. I would do just about anything to escape to the US.
At least in the US, I can use my hard-won money on my own health. Up here, the government prohibits such things and people are stupid enough to call it a benefit.
Posted by Adacia
- February 18, 2005, 10:02:17 AM I'm telling ya. $$$ is the most addicting drug on this planet. I just nod my head reading these posts. It seems humanity is few and far between. Yes, I am on SSI in WI and it is more challenging to keep than a job. I get treated like **** in the ER.
If I could go back in time before the $ bill was around, I would. Atleast the world wouldn't revolve around it. Not to mention, the same govt's that treat us like pawns on their chess board, wouldn't be there. Every day I read the news is a new day of madness. Bombs. nuclear threats and tactics, killings all around. It's no wonder I prefer to stay at home and play pogo. It's not like any of that will matter if things keep going at the rate they do. Frankly, it's scary as ***.
I'm just gonna say it straight out. I'm terrified of our govt and everyone else's for that matter. We should all be treating each other like humans and not like banks. The political world is gonna lead us to nuclear war one day if it doesn't change. I'd like to move to Canada for several reasons. One of which is that I feel America is a sinking ship.
My SSI gets altered every time the wind blows. I never know when I can or can't get my help without a deductible. I have an invisible case worker that never replies. It's all craziness.
If I could go back in time before the $ bill was around, I would. Atleast the world wouldn't revolve around it. Not to mention, the same govt's that treat us like pawns on their chess board, wouldn't be there. Every day I read the news is a new day of madness. Bombs. nuclear threats and tactics, killings all around. It's no wonder I prefer to stay at home and play pogo. It's not like any of that will matter if things keep going at the rate they do. Frankly, it's scary as ***.
I'm just gonna say it straight out. I'm terrified of our govt and everyone else's for that matter. We should all be treating each other like humans and not like banks. The political world is gonna lead us to nuclear war one day if it doesn't change. I'd like to move to Canada for several reasons. One of which is that I feel America is a sinking ship.
My SSI gets altered every time the wind blows. I never know when I can or can't get my help without a deductible. I have an invisible case worker that never replies. It's all craziness.
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 18, 2005, 09:54:16 AMSnare,
I could get emergency care. In fact, the only way I could get any sort of advanced treatment was to show up at the emergency and wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. The worse off you are the faster you get served.
Pretty much the same sort of treatment a homeless person in the US could expect to receive.
My family has a genetic predisposition to a particular cancer, and I am supposed to go in for screening every second year from age 25 to 40 and every year thereafter. I managed to get my first screening at the age of 38. Everything was clear and okay, thankfully.
Now I am faced with moving to a different area of the province, and I am told to expect 8 years on the waiting list for a family doctor in the community where I am moving. On the other hand, I am moving to a border town, so maybe I can get a doctor across the river. God only knows when I will be able to go in for the second screening, which is due next year, if I have to wait 8 years for a GP.
I could get emergency care. In fact, the only way I could get any sort of advanced treatment was to show up at the emergency and wait. And wait. And wait. And wait. The worse off you are the faster you get served.
Pretty much the same sort of treatment a homeless person in the US could expect to receive.
My family has a genetic predisposition to a particular cancer, and I am supposed to go in for screening every second year from age 25 to 40 and every year thereafter. I managed to get my first screening at the age of 38. Everything was clear and okay, thankfully.
Now I am faced with moving to a different area of the province, and I am told to expect 8 years on the waiting list for a family doctor in the community where I am moving. On the other hand, I am moving to a border town, so maybe I can get a doctor across the river. God only knows when I will be able to go in for the second screening, which is due next year, if I have to wait 8 years for a GP.
Posted by Snarechick
- February 18, 2005, 09:34:51 AMThat is absolutely insane! You weren't allowed to buy your own insurance during that entire time? What would happen if you needed emergency medicine and or surgery? I'm sure they wouldn't admit any fault in that, would they. Wow.
I was in a somewhat similar situation for two years with BCBS. I was dropped without warning or explanation as a MINOR (15 years of age) for two years. BCBS would not admit fault and would not reinstate me on my mother's insurance. They even had me under two policies with the second supposedly being my father yet I didn't know the guy and he live six states away. Just prior to being dropped, it was already suspected that I had cancer...two years goes by fighting with the insurance company and I'm becoming more and more ill. The day I was reinstated, I went straight from the UAW benefits office to the emergency room. They scheduled and performed my surgery that week and I found out I had Stage IV Thyroid Cancer.
So I can't imagine that sort of uninsured situation for anyone else, let alone six long years. Anything could have happened in that time!
I was in a somewhat similar situation for two years with BCBS. I was dropped without warning or explanation as a MINOR (15 years of age) for two years. BCBS would not admit fault and would not reinstate me on my mother's insurance. They even had me under two policies with the second supposedly being my father yet I didn't know the guy and he live six states away. Just prior to being dropped, it was already suspected that I had cancer...two years goes by fighting with the insurance company and I'm becoming more and more ill. The day I was reinstated, I went straight from the UAW benefits office to the emergency room. They scheduled and performed my surgery that week and I found out I had Stage IV Thyroid Cancer.
So I can't imagine that sort of uninsured situation for anyone else, let alone six long years. Anything could have happened in that time!
Posted by bob@pogopal
- February 18, 2005, 05:44:26 AMAs one who was effectivewly shut out of the canadian healthcare system for more than 6 years for lack of a family doctor, I am not a fan of socialized medicine. I find it obscene that Ontario would forcibly prevent me from spending my own money on my own healthcare while seizing my money to pay for another person's healthcare.
The only word I can think to describe that situation is: evil. Pure, unadulterated evil.
The only word I can think to describe that situation is: evil. Pure, unadulterated evil.