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Posted by Tupac
- June 21, 2004, 07:23:15 PMQuote from: DJ on June 21, 2004, 01:24:31 PMi dont think we got slaughtered
It's one thing to lie about sexual relations but to lie as to why you want to sent our men and women over there to get slaughtered is a whole different story.
Posted by DJ_
- June 21, 2004, 02:37:49 PMI guess after hearing so many different stories it's really hard to remember all of them. :-\
Posted by bob@pogopal
- June 21, 2004, 02:00:16 PMThe accusations coming out of the administration just prior to the war were exactly what I already posted. The accusation was that Saddam refused to allow verification of the concessions imposed on Iraq after Iraq lost the previous war.
The administration did not lie about the reason for going to war. Is your memory really that short?
The administration did not lie about the reason for going to war. Is your memory really that short?
Posted by DJ_
- June 21, 2004, 01:24:31 PMI'm talking about recent accusations that the Bush administration was feeding us right before we went to war. Those have not been prooven....I'm not saying Saddam was a good person/leader, he got what he deserved and I'm glad he's out of power. If Bush would've come out and told us the truth as to why we needed to go to war I wouldn't have a problem with it. But telling us that they have proof that Saddam was building nuclear weapons and a year later there still is nothing to show for, makes me go hummmm?
It's one thing to lie about sexual relations but to lie as to why you want to sent our men and women over there to get slaughtered is a whole different story. I guess that's to be expected from politicians, rule #1 in there book "lie to the people", rule #2 " if the truth comes out blame someone else".
I support our troops but not our President, our troops where lied to just like the rest of us and have no other choice but to finish the mission.
Anyway I'm not voting this year!
QuoteYou allow Jennings and Brockaw to manipulate you too easily.I'm sorry Bob but I don't even watch network news, I watch Fox News for your information.
It's one thing to lie about sexual relations but to lie as to why you want to sent our men and women over there to get slaughtered is a whole different story. I guess that's to be expected from politicians, rule #1 in there book "lie to the people", rule #2 " if the truth comes out blame someone else".
I support our troops but not our President, our troops where lied to just like the rest of us and have no other choice but to finish the mission.
Anyway I'm not voting this year!
QuoteI see voting a little differently from you. I see it as a solemn responsibilityI disagree, it is everyones choice if they want to vote or not...it is my solemn responsibility to put food on the table and keep a roof over my head. Voting is the last thing on my long list of responsibilities. ;)
Posted by Tupac
- June 21, 2004, 01:18:48 PMBOB is so good with politics go bob go bush !!
Posted by bob@pogopal
- June 21, 2004, 12:40:10 PMThe only accusations, if you care at all about historical accuracy, were that Saddam refused to allow inspectors to verify Iraq's abstinence from WMD production. Those accusations were proved before the war even started. In a nutshell, the US went to war because Iraq refused to meet the conditions imposed to end the previous war.
Saddam had developed and used chemical weapons against the Kurds and against Iran. Saddam's nuclear program was extremely well developed (far more developed than anyone had previously predicted) back in 1991, and of course that was even after Israel took out the Osirak reactor.
Is your memory really that short? You allow Jennings and Brockaw to manipulate you too easily.
Saddam had developed and used chemical weapons against the Kurds and against Iran. Saddam's nuclear program was extremely well developed (far more developed than anyone had previously predicted) back in 1991, and of course that was even after Israel took out the Osirak reactor.
Is your memory really that short? You allow Jennings and Brockaw to manipulate you too easily.
Posted by DJ_
- June 21, 2004, 12:18:41 PMYou mean him using chemicals on the Curds in the 80's? Well yes that has been a prooven fact for a long time now, I'm talking about recent accusations. Those have not been prooven to this day..... ;)
Posted by bob@pogopal
- June 21, 2004, 07:03:30 AMI thought the US went to war because it had previously been proved without question that Iraq had developed weapons of mass destruction, had in fact used chemical weapons against its own ethnic minority populations, and refused to allow anyone to verify its new-found abstinence.
It hardly seems fair to criticize the administration for ignorance of hidden facts when it largely went to war to end the hiding.
In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better for the US to take on North Korea first, but that situation poses its own unique diplomatic problems. Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of making these decisions with hindsight.
That said, the way Bush went to war without due solemnity and resolve was unconscionable. By making a bad situation worse, Bush wasted American lives for no good purpose.
It hardly seems fair to criticize the administration for ignorance of hidden facts when it largely went to war to end the hiding.
In hindsight, perhaps it would have been better for the US to take on North Korea first, but that situation poses its own unique diplomatic problems. Unfortunately, we do not have the luxury of making these decisions with hindsight.
That said, the way Bush went to war without due solemnity and resolve was unconscionable. By making a bad situation worse, Bush wasted American lives for no good purpose.
Posted by DJ_
- June 21, 2004, 03:48:40 AMI'm reading all these things about Bush and the war in Iraq but what I'm not reading is as to why we went in the first place.
Number 1 reason he George W. Bush went to war was to get rid of the weapons of mass distruction....which to this day there is no proof that Saddam had any! I was all for going in there and get rid off Saddam and the WOMD but now that I know he lied to me and millions of other Americans I want to spit in his face!
I say it again Bush is a moron and liar...when he started running for office he didn't even know the names of leaders from other countries....on top of that he can't even read what's right in front of him on a screen, need I say more LOL because i will :P
Four more years if lies and stupidity? I don't think so!
However I have the feeling we're going to see 4 more years of this idiot because people are blinded by color and don't care who or what is good for this country.
Even without 9/11 he would've ruined this country, that excuse is not flying with me so no need to bring that up. ;D
I will not vote this year.... after what happened in Florida last time I need to see if the voting system really has been changed for the better. What a mess that was!
Anyone want to bet that we will see his brother running for Office in the next 8 years? Another Bush...God help us! ::) ;D
Number 1 reason he George W. Bush went to war was to get rid of the weapons of mass distruction....which to this day there is no proof that Saddam had any! I was all for going in there and get rid off Saddam and the WOMD but now that I know he lied to me and millions of other Americans I want to spit in his face!
I say it again Bush is a moron and liar...when he started running for office he didn't even know the names of leaders from other countries....on top of that he can't even read what's right in front of him on a screen, need I say more LOL because i will :P
Four more years if lies and stupidity? I don't think so!
However I have the feeling we're going to see 4 more years of this idiot because people are blinded by color and don't care who or what is good for this country.
QuoteLiving in Utah though, my vote is pretty much a throw-away... Utah will go republican no problemSame here; South Carolina votes by color only. I believe it's because a lot of people are too lazy to listen to all the candidates and make up their own minds.... and they are worried about what their friends will think if they don't vote just like everyone else. I voted for Gore last time and I'm not ashamed to admit it, that's why I have all the rights to bash Bush because I didn't vote for his sorry ass. When he took over the Whitehouse I said to my wife "watch this idiot is going to ruin the country and economy.....it took Clinton 8 years to get the country out of the red and it will take Bush less than a year to put us back in the red". Guess I was right on the money....why did I know this? Because I listened to what he and others had to say.
Even without 9/11 he would've ruined this country, that excuse is not flying with me so no need to bring that up. ;D
I will not vote this year.... after what happened in Florida last time I need to see if the voting system really has been changed for the better. What a mess that was!
Anyone want to bet that we will see his brother running for Office in the next 8 years? Another Bush...God help us! ::) ;D
Posted by Raine
- June 20, 2004, 08:22:39 PMI wanted John Edwards to get the Democratic Nomination....I hate the way Bush is using religion to form secular law. Religion is highly personal; if belief in a higher power helps him make it through the day, that's great. But, Bush needn't attempt to make the entire nation live by his morals. I may vote for Kerry if he wants Edwards as his running mate and Edwards accepts.
Im neither a Democrat or a Republican, I think it depends on which person is the best candidate for the job.
Im neither a Democrat or a Republican, I think it depends on which person is the best candidate for the job.
Posted by Tupac
- June 20, 2004, 05:08:05 PMSaddam has nukes underground we havent found em yet. bush could no where they are at and is waiting till a few days before he is reelected to get more votes same with binladen he prolly nos where he is justwaiting for the right time to get him cant wait till hes reelected!!!! tupac should run for president tho
Posted by bob@pogopal
- June 20, 2004, 12:06:10 PMI see voting a little differently from you. I see it as a solemn responsibility. Those who are unable or unwilling to prepare by studying and knowing history and by studying the candidates and their platforms have a responsibility to abstain from the vote.
Posted by fatkid
- June 20, 2004, 11:55:07 AMHey hey, we agree Bob... :D
By half measures all he did was insure lowered moral for the troops in the area, resentful relations with the natives in the Middle East, and more American deaths (as a by-product more Middle Eastern deaths as well)...
Not really sure who I'm going to vote for though... It won't be Bush and it won't be Kerry though... I feel though as an American it's my civic duty to vote, else wise I really have no reason to bitch about conditions as much as I do... Living in Utah though, my vote is pretty much a throw-away... Utah will go republican no problem... I'd just like to help a 3rd independent party help to recieve federal funding during election time next time around, so that's how my vote will probably go...
By half measures all he did was insure lowered moral for the troops in the area, resentful relations with the natives in the Middle East, and more American deaths (as a by-product more Middle Eastern deaths as well)...
Not really sure who I'm going to vote for though... It won't be Bush and it won't be Kerry though... I feel though as an American it's my civic duty to vote, else wise I really have no reason to bitch about conditions as much as I do... Living in Utah though, my vote is pretty much a throw-away... Utah will go republican no problem... I'd just like to help a 3rd independent party help to recieve federal funding during election time next time around, so that's how my vote will probably go...
Posted by bob@pogopal
- June 20, 2004, 11:47:13 AMZaLandCruiser,
I disagree with you where Bush went wrong. He went wrong by failing to send sufficient troops to Iraq to provide security and policing after the victory. He failed by failing to de-baathify Iraq. He failed by failing to partition Iraq.
Going to war was the right decision. Going to war by half-measures is never the right decision. War is one of those few areas where the only two legitimate choices are all or nothing.
I disagree with you where Bush went wrong. He went wrong by failing to send sufficient troops to Iraq to provide security and policing after the victory. He failed by failing to de-baathify Iraq. He failed by failing to partition Iraq.
Going to war was the right decision. Going to war by half-measures is never the right decision. War is one of those few areas where the only two legitimate choices are all or nothing.
Posted by ZaLandCruiser
- June 20, 2004, 10:19:50 AMBush has done a good job but hes done a lot of bad things too like going to war :-\ thats why he might not get ReElected ;) . Kerry has my vote :P.